As the
first term draws to a close, so does a hectic whirl of caving and
socialising. But those new to the club, won't know that the final event
of the year takes place at the Hut on New Year's Eve, with a turkey
dinner and our own rituals to ensure the sun rises the following day.
The dinner is an unbroken tradition that that started in 1919 when the
UBSS came into existence. We can't say exactly when the rituals started
but living memory puts them well in excess of half a century. So if
you're at a loose end in Bristol that night, and would like to come
along, please let Linda know in advance so we can get an idea of numbers.
Many thanks to everyone who's contributed to the newsletter this month! We're always open to material, both written and photographic, and if there's anything you'd like us to feature, please let us know! There's also a huge incentive to get to the end this time in the form of some absolutely superb photos from Chris Howes. And if you'd like to check out more of his work, you can do so here. We've also got a selection of fantastic photos from other UBSS members in this issue, so don't forget that we're always happy to have photo features. And if any of our older members have some of bygone times, either at the Hut or underground, please do send them in, as that would be a great way of reviving our 100 Memories project.
Please also welcome Alysia Ellis to the newsletter team, to give you one more person to hide from in the pub and to let Dan off the hook (maybe!) from Linda constantly calling in favours due to the Incident with the Keyboard and the Shrubbery.
If you want check out previous issues, you can find them all here. You can also find a scanned archive of all our paper issues from 1919 to 2017 here.
Many thanks to everyone who's contributed to the newsletter this month! We're always open to material, both written and photographic, and if there's anything you'd like us to feature, please let us know! There's also a huge incentive to get to the end this time in the form of some absolutely superb photos from Chris Howes. And if you'd like to check out more of his work, you can do so here. We've also got a selection of fantastic photos from other UBSS members in this issue, so don't forget that we're always happy to have photo features. And if any of our older members have some of bygone times, either at the Hut or underground, please do send them in, as that would be a great way of reviving our 100 Memories project.
Please also welcome Alysia Ellis to the newsletter team, to give you one more person to hide from in the pub and to let Dan off the hook (maybe!) from Linda constantly calling in favours due to the Incident with the Keyboard and the Shrubbery.
If you want check out previous issues, you can find them all here. You can also find a scanned archive of all our paper issues from 1919 to 2017 here.
Linda, Alysia and Dan Hill
AGM AND ANNUAL DINNER 2024
Actual dinner may vary!
Our AGM and Annual Dinner will be taking place on 9th March 2024. The venue for the AGM will be notified nearer the time, but at the moment, Stanley Lewis, who has kindly volunteered to find a venue for the dinner, would like as many people as possible to fill out a very short survey (one minute of your time, honestly!) to help him estimate numbers so he can get on with finding and booking a venue.
You can find the survey here.
Actual dinner may vary!
Our AGM and Annual Dinner will be taking place on 9th March 2024. The venue for the AGM will be notified nearer the time, but at the moment, Stanley Lewis, who has kindly volunteered to find a venue for the dinner, would like as many people as possible to fill out a very short survey (one minute of your time, honestly!) to help him estimate numbers so he can get on with finding and booking a venue.
You can find the survey here.
TALK - THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE USE OF STALAGMITES IN GEOSCIENCE
The British Cave Research Association (BCRA) hosts a series of lecture webinars on zoom. The next is on Monday 4th December at 7.30 given by Clare Ansberque of Stockholm University.
Stalagmites are not only beautiful features emblematic of caves, but they are also remarkably useful for advancing knowledge in Geosciences. In this talk, Clare will present how stalagmites have shed light on past Earth climate and environments as well as on the behaviour of our ancient relatives. She will also talk about the new research avenues opening up with the development of genetic analyses directly applied on stalagmites; these analyses have huge potential for better understanding the interactions between climate, ecosystems and diseases: a genuine concern in a warming Earth.
Full details of this and future talks can be found on the BCRA website along with details of how to join the free webinar.
The British Cave Research Association (BCRA) hosts a series of lecture webinars on zoom. The next is on Monday 4th December at 7.30 given by Clare Ansberque of Stockholm University.
Stalagmites are not only beautiful features emblematic of caves, but they are also remarkably useful for advancing knowledge in Geosciences. In this talk, Clare will present how stalagmites have shed light on past Earth climate and environments as well as on the behaviour of our ancient relatives. She will also talk about the new research avenues opening up with the development of genetic analyses directly applied on stalagmites; these analyses have huge potential for better understanding the interactions between climate, ecosystems and diseases: a genuine concern in a warming Earth.
Full details of this and future talks can be found on the BCRA website along with details of how to join the free webinar.
CHANGING THE BARN!
Elaine Oliver putting her DIY skills to good use.
For many years, the Maine family of Priddy have kindly allowed cavers visiting Swildon's Hole to change upstairs in one of their barns on Priddy Green. Over the years, the water from generations of dripping cavers has rotted the floor, which has been patched up many times, but following recent roof repairs by the owners, the Council of Southern Caving Clubs (CSCC) secured a grant of £2,000 from the Mendip Hills Fund to cover the cost of the materials for this project, with cavers providing volunteer labour, overseen by caver and builder Alan Butcher.
An appeal for labour by CSCC's Conservation and Access Officer Wayne Starsmore resulted in Elaine Oliver and Merryn Matthews helping out with the recent works, which should mean that future generations of cavers can use the barn withiout fearing a rapid and unscheduled descent to the ground floor.
Merryn Matthews showing off her skills, too.
Merryn says: "We went out on the Sunday to help with the installing the noggins between struts and new floorboards. Elaine helped chuck a bunch of old stuff in the Skip. It was fun to chat to people who have seen the barn over multiple decades (no wonder the floor had gone, all that stanky welly water..), and they appreciated some student club help too. Unfortunately we ran out of wood and couldn't see it finished on the day!"
When using the barn, please remember to take off your wellies before going upstairs, as this will help to prevent excess water from rotting the boards again.
Elaine Oliver putting her DIY skills to good use.
For many years, the Maine family of Priddy have kindly allowed cavers visiting Swildon's Hole to change upstairs in one of their barns on Priddy Green. Over the years, the water from generations of dripping cavers has rotted the floor, which has been patched up many times, but following recent roof repairs by the owners, the Council of Southern Caving Clubs (CSCC) secured a grant of £2,000 from the Mendip Hills Fund to cover the cost of the materials for this project, with cavers providing volunteer labour, overseen by caver and builder Alan Butcher.
An appeal for labour by CSCC's Conservation and Access Officer Wayne Starsmore resulted in Elaine Oliver and Merryn Matthews helping out with the recent works, which should mean that future generations of cavers can use the barn withiout fearing a rapid and unscheduled descent to the ground floor.
Merryn Matthews showing off her skills, too.
Merryn says: "We went out on the Sunday to help with the installing the noggins between struts and new floorboards. Elaine helped chuck a bunch of old stuff in the Skip. It was fun to chat to people who have seen the barn over multiple decades (no wonder the floor had gone, all that stanky welly water..), and they appreciated some student club help too. Unfortunately we ran out of wood and couldn't see it finished on the day!"
When using the barn, please remember to take off your wellies before going upstairs, as this will help to prevent excess water from rotting the boards again.
JUST HANGING AROUND
This month we returned to our familiar position dangling from the ceiling in the SU.
In preparation for vertical caving coming up soon, Felix, James and Dan Hill had an SRT refresher session to make sure we were up to the task. Under the expert supervision of Merryn, Jess and Jake (and with the help of our brand new SRT beginners guide! Thank you, Jess), the three of us spent a few hours going up, down and up again, much to the confusion of everyone trying to get on with their coursework.
Going down!
We managed to make it all the way through with no broken bones, or even anyone getting strung up! Maximum effort was definitely given because at the end, we were even too tired to go to the pub.
If you're interested in joining the vertical fun, let Jess know and you can get dangling at our earliest convenience.
This month we returned to our familiar position dangling from the ceiling in the SU.
In preparation for vertical caving coming up soon, Felix, James and Dan Hill had an SRT refresher session to make sure we were up to the task. Under the expert supervision of Merryn, Jess and Jake (and with the help of our brand new SRT beginners guide! Thank you, Jess), the three of us spent a few hours going up, down and up again, much to the confusion of everyone trying to get on with their coursework.
Going down!
We managed to make it all the way through with no broken bones, or even anyone getting strung up! Maximum effort was definitely given because at the end, we were even too tired to go to the pub.
If you're interested in joining the vertical fun, let Jess know and you can get dangling at our earliest convenience.
Dan Hill
BONFIRE WEEKEND
Once again bonfire weekend this year went off with a bang!
With a firework show, incredible food cooked over the fire and on the barbecue, festivities carrying on late into the night, and there was much caving of course ! I personally finally got a chance to give Swildon’s Hole a go - a cave many have a love-hate relationship with; fortunately I’m definitely part of the loving it camp! My group decided to brave climbing out through the tree exit which was very fun. All in all, it was a wonderful trip and definitely not one to miss!
And now for a random selection of photos!
Rod's Pot. From back to front, Megan, Imogen and Jositha. Photo by Jess Brock.
Walking the plank in Singing River Mine. Photo by Merryn Matthews.
Drying off after caving. Photo by Jess Brock.
Something fishy going on. (Jess Brock, left, Mia Jacobs, right).
The traditional UBSS pastime of ladder traversing. Photo by Mia Jacobs.
And to end with, we bring you possibly the creepiest piccie of 2023 ...
Megan Malpas auditioning for the latest series of Doctor Who.
Once again bonfire weekend this year went off with a bang!
With a firework show, incredible food cooked over the fire and on the barbecue, festivities carrying on late into the night, and there was much caving of course ! I personally finally got a chance to give Swildon’s Hole a go - a cave many have a love-hate relationship with; fortunately I’m definitely part of the loving it camp! My group decided to brave climbing out through the tree exit which was very fun. All in all, it was a wonderful trip and definitely not one to miss!
Alysia Ellis
And now for a random selection of photos!
Rod's Pot. From back to front, Megan, Imogen and Jositha. Photo by Jess Brock.
Walking the plank in Singing River Mine. Photo by Merryn Matthews.
Drying off after caving. Photo by Jess Brock.
Something fishy going on. (Jess Brock, left, Mia Jacobs, right).
The traditional UBSS pastime of ladder traversing. Photo by Mia Jacobs.
And to end with, we bring you possibly the creepiest piccie of 2023 ...
Megan Malpas auditioning for the latest series of Doctor Who.
ZIPWIRES AND TRAMOLINES!
Bouncy, bouncy, fun, fun, fun, fun fun! And pretty lights.
Charlotte Harman and honorary UBSS members Emilio and Marcello (junior branch) recently took a trip to North Wales, for some underground trampolining and overground zipwires!
Blaenau Ffestiniog in the mountains of Snowdonia, North Wales is home to the Llechwedd slate quarry which at its peak in 1884 produced almost 24,000 tons of slate per year.
It probably wasn't this colour when it was a working mine.
During the Industrial Revolution, the landscape was permanently changed with further quarries being built, which, by the end of the 19th century were extracting over half a million tonnes of slate per year. The history of mining in the area defined the local communities and the families that were part of them in such a significant way that the area has been designated as a UNESCO world heritage status destination.
Half of the junior branch having fun.
It is possible to visit the Llechwedd slate quarry and travel 500 feet below ground on Europe’s steepest narrow gauge cable railway for their deep mine tour where you can explore the disused slate caverns, now open to the public, all of which were carved out by hand. However, there are also other exciting adventures you can partake in. Hidden within the historical Llechwedd cavern tunnels is Bounce Below, a unique adventure with 6 trampoline-style nets built into an area twice the size of St. Paul’s Cathedral and with tube slides across three levels. We had a fantastic time bouncing round exploring the caves and watching people taking part in cave ziplining.
Underground entertainment!
After a large slice of cake, we got kitted up for our second adventure, this time outside the caverns.
Titan zipline.
Titan is currently the largest zip zone in Europe and the first four-person zip line. An ex-military truck drives up the mountain so that you can take in the landscape and learn a little about the slate industry and its impact on the area. There are some stunning views across South Snowdonia, the Moelwyn mountain range and the slate quarry below as you whizz down the ziplines. It was absolutely exhilarating, and we would highly recommend it for all adrenalin junkies!
Bouncy, bouncy, fun, fun, fun, fun fun! And pretty lights.
Charlotte Harman and honorary UBSS members Emilio and Marcello (junior branch) recently took a trip to North Wales, for some underground trampolining and overground zipwires!
Blaenau Ffestiniog in the mountains of Snowdonia, North Wales is home to the Llechwedd slate quarry which at its peak in 1884 produced almost 24,000 tons of slate per year.
It probably wasn't this colour when it was a working mine.
During the Industrial Revolution, the landscape was permanently changed with further quarries being built, which, by the end of the 19th century were extracting over half a million tonnes of slate per year. The history of mining in the area defined the local communities and the families that were part of them in such a significant way that the area has been designated as a UNESCO world heritage status destination.
Half of the junior branch having fun.
It is possible to visit the Llechwedd slate quarry and travel 500 feet below ground on Europe’s steepest narrow gauge cable railway for their deep mine tour where you can explore the disused slate caverns, now open to the public, all of which were carved out by hand. However, there are also other exciting adventures you can partake in. Hidden within the historical Llechwedd cavern tunnels is Bounce Below, a unique adventure with 6 trampoline-style nets built into an area twice the size of St. Paul’s Cathedral and with tube slides across three levels. We had a fantastic time bouncing round exploring the caves and watching people taking part in cave ziplining.
Underground entertainment!
After a large slice of cake, we got kitted up for our second adventure, this time outside the caverns.
Titan zipline.
Titan is currently the largest zip zone in Europe and the first four-person zip line. An ex-military truck drives up the mountain so that you can take in the landscape and learn a little about the slate industry and its impact on the area. There are some stunning views across South Snowdonia, the Moelwyn mountain range and the slate quarry below as you whizz down the ziplines. It was absolutely exhilarating, and we would highly recommend it for all adrenalin junkies!
Charlotte Harman
THE CREATURE FROM THE BLUE LAGOON
Pool, Singing River Mine. Photo by Merryn Matthews.
Dan Hill describes the first trip into the recently reopened Singing River Mine, Shipham, a favourite haunt of UBSS members in times past.
Leading up to Bonfire Weekend, Merryn had put together a group to take a trip down Singing River Mine. We were the first group to be permitted in a little while due to ta change of ownership, and it had taken some time for the Council of Southern Caving Clubs (CSCC) to negotiate a new access agreement, so we were naturally told to be on our best behaviour and to to change as discreetly as possible in the village.
Ryan, Dan Runcan, James, Merryn and I got on with wood collecting and sawing whilst we waited for Elaine to make an appearance. By the time we were driving down the road, our chance of being impressively punctual was quickly slipping away.
We arrived at Shipham village green, stocking up on some much needed sandwiches and splitting a can of ginger beer six ways. As we tried to change into our caving gear as modestly as we possibly could, someone who I won't name did somewhat compromise our modesty mission, but in the end, all was well.
The entrance to Singing River Mine is literally in the middle of someone's garden. We were shouted directions by the neighbor from a top floor window and went in through the back gate. It felt a bit weird setting up the ladder next to the conservatory and toys left on the grass.
Singing River MIne. Photo by Merryn Matthews.
We took the ladder down a vertical shaft which had a comfy spot to wait at the bottom full of broken glass and huge spiders.
Singing River Mine is fairly linear, with a west way and an east way, however it is also full of many dead ends and loops branching off at different elevations, which made it a bit challenging to navigate. Our mission was just to bumble around until we'd seen it all, looking for the pretty blue pools Merryn had heard about.
Survey courtesy of the Mendip Cave Registry and Archive.
We followed one of the passages first (I can't remember if it was east or west). It was strange being surrounded by walls that weren't made of limestone. The mine had crumbly, muddy walls, streaked by the orange and green of ores and minerals. The first passage had a few nice pools that we tried our best to photograph using state of the art underwater cave photography techniques. We turned around at the end of the passage, with a slight feeling of disappointment; the description Merryn had been given had suggested more impressive pools than the ones we had got.
Elaine being held upside down in the state of the art photography techniques.
Next, we explored the other passage and quickly forgot any doubts we'd had. About one minute from the ladder in the other direction we came across a still, blue pool the size of a swimming pool, stretching about 20 m long and reaching to chest height at its deepest. The water looked so inviting that, as the exit wasn't far away, I decided to go for a swim. Stripping off my kit, I did my best Gollum impression, splashing around like a creature until my extremeties started to go numb. It was a very freeing experience, I have a newfound understanding for why he stayed in that cave for 500 years. I just try to avoid thinking about how much lead was in that water.
Preciousss, my preciousss! We wants it!
After a shivery climb back up the ladder, we returned to an evening of roasted meat, beer and fireworks. 10/10 would go again.
If anyone is interested in taking a trip to Singing River email the CSCC Conservation and access Officer a week in advance with all the details! And for the full access arrangements, see our September 2023 newsletter.
Pool, Singing River Mine. Photo by Merryn Matthews.
Dan Hill describes the first trip into the recently reopened Singing River Mine, Shipham, a favourite haunt of UBSS members in times past.
Leading up to Bonfire Weekend, Merryn had put together a group to take a trip down Singing River Mine. We were the first group to be permitted in a little while due to ta change of ownership, and it had taken some time for the Council of Southern Caving Clubs (CSCC) to negotiate a new access agreement, so we were naturally told to be on our best behaviour and to to change as discreetly as possible in the village.
Ryan, Dan Runcan, James, Merryn and I got on with wood collecting and sawing whilst we waited for Elaine to make an appearance. By the time we were driving down the road, our chance of being impressively punctual was quickly slipping away.
We arrived at Shipham village green, stocking up on some much needed sandwiches and splitting a can of ginger beer six ways. As we tried to change into our caving gear as modestly as we possibly could, someone who I won't name did somewhat compromise our modesty mission, but in the end, all was well.
The entrance to Singing River Mine is literally in the middle of someone's garden. We were shouted directions by the neighbor from a top floor window and went in through the back gate. It felt a bit weird setting up the ladder next to the conservatory and toys left on the grass.
Singing River MIne. Photo by Merryn Matthews.
We took the ladder down a vertical shaft which had a comfy spot to wait at the bottom full of broken glass and huge spiders.
Singing River Mine is fairly linear, with a west way and an east way, however it is also full of many dead ends and loops branching off at different elevations, which made it a bit challenging to navigate. Our mission was just to bumble around until we'd seen it all, looking for the pretty blue pools Merryn had heard about.
Survey courtesy of the Mendip Cave Registry and Archive.
We followed one of the passages first (I can't remember if it was east or west). It was strange being surrounded by walls that weren't made of limestone. The mine had crumbly, muddy walls, streaked by the orange and green of ores and minerals. The first passage had a few nice pools that we tried our best to photograph using state of the art underwater cave photography techniques. We turned around at the end of the passage, with a slight feeling of disappointment; the description Merryn had been given had suggested more impressive pools than the ones we had got.
Elaine being held upside down in the state of the art photography techniques.
Next, we explored the other passage and quickly forgot any doubts we'd had. About one minute from the ladder in the other direction we came across a still, blue pool the size of a swimming pool, stretching about 20 m long and reaching to chest height at its deepest. The water looked so inviting that, as the exit wasn't far away, I decided to go for a swim. Stripping off my kit, I did my best Gollum impression, splashing around like a creature until my extremeties started to go numb. It was a very freeing experience, I have a newfound understanding for why he stayed in that cave for 500 years. I just try to avoid thinking about how much lead was in that water.
Preciousss, my preciousss! We wants it!
After a shivery climb back up the ladder, we returned to an evening of roasted meat, beer and fireworks. 10/10 would go again.
If anyone is interested in taking a trip to Singing River email the CSCC Conservation and access Officer a week in advance with all the details! And for the full access arrangements, see our September 2023 newsletter.
Dan Hill
TWO EPIC TALES OF ONE TRIP
Crawl into the streamway in Lionel's. Photo by Peter Glanvill, used with his kind permission.
Merryn Matthews recently faced a case of writer's block (aka a bad dose of can't-be-arsed) when contemplating setting fingers to keyboard with the story of a recent trip to Lionel's hole in Burrington, but managed nobly to overcome this ...
Oh wow, we found the way...
On the Sunday of bonfire weekend a group of us decided to have an explore in Lionel's. My previous two trips there led me to believe that I hated Lionel's, viewing it as an unnavigable crawly maze you must subject yourself to when extremely hungover. I remember spending a trip there staring repeatedly at my watch, complaining, and wondering how long we had to poke around boulders for before it was acceptable to say, 'we've been caving'.
This time however, led by Elaine and Jacob Podesta, Dan Hill and I had a zoomy roundtrip, passing through the very unnoticeable 'ducks' and even taking an extra detour to visit Suicide Chamber. I actually enjoyed wibbling around the boulder maze and trying to guess how it all linked up. I still don't think I have any idea of the route, other than that it often looked like the most unlikely way on. However, I no longer hate Lionel's - a transformative experience. The other four, unguided by Elaine, may now hate Lionel's having got confused exploring round the entrance chamber.
(Jacob claimed he had completed the round trip before but been gaslighted by the un-duck like ducks, and Si, into thinking he had not completed the whole thing)
I initially couldn't be bothered to write a report so tried asking Chat GPT, which turned it into quite an entertaining epic. Who knew it was such a big cave. I now intend to use chat GPT for all future newsletter content.
And now we present the version as written by Merryn's artificial friend and caving companion ...
Conquering the Cave: A Thrilling Expedition through Lionel's
And this is what happens when you ask Bing images to help out!
Introduction:
After a disastrous first attempt at exploring the treacherous depths of Lionel's Cave, plagued by a hangover and a lost sense of direction, I had given up all hope on ever enjoying this subterranean wonder. However, fate had other plans for me, for it wasn't long before Elaine, the adventurous soul that she is, decided to lead a group of friends for another attempt at Lionel's. Little did we know that this journey would turn into a heart-pounding, laughter-inducing adventure like no other.
Day 1: Descending Into the Abyss
With a mix of excitement and trepidation, we gathered at the entrance of Lionels Cave. Armed with headlamps, provisions, and Elaine's unwavering confidence, we took our first steps into the unknown. The stalactites and stalagmites stretched out like jagged teeth, ready to claim unwary explorers, but this time, we were prepared.
Elaine, our fearless leader, navigated the labyrinthine caverns flawlessly, effortlessly maneuvering through narrow passages and evading treacherous chasms. Her knowledge of Lionel's, acquired through numerous past expeditions, made her the perfect guide. As we followed her lead, anticipation gripped our hearts, making us feel like true explorers, seekers of forgotten treasures.
Day 2: Defying Gravity and Discovering Hidden Charms
On the second day, we stumbled upon a vertical tunnel that continued into the dark abyss above. Emboldened by Elaine's audacity, we decided to venture up into the unknown depths, defying gravity in the process. With each precarious step, our adrenaline surged, mingled with laughter at the sheer absurdity of our pursuit. At that moment, we realized that Lionel's was as much about conquering our fears as it was about unveiling its secrets.
Midway through our ascent, we were greeted by an enchanting glow that emanated from within a hidden chamber. We discovered a breathtaking spectacle: bioluminescent algae covered the walls, creating the illusion of floating stars in an underground sky. Our awe and wonder were tangible as we danced amidst this natural light show, cameras capturing every magical moment.
Day 3: The Great Escape
As we approached the end of our expedition, we found ourselves deep within a network of twisting tunnels. Uneasiness settled upon our group as we realized we were lost once again. Panic threatened to consume us, but then Elaine unleashed her secret weapon - a bag of glowsticks.
With a newfound sense of purpose, we cracked each glowstick, releasing their vibrant hues into the air. Our efforts transformed the dark, gloomy tunnels into a jubilant and kaleidoscopic wonderland. The illuminated path guided us towards the exit, leading us through twists, turns, and narrow squeezes, until finally, fresh air greeted our faces like a long-lost friend.
Conclusion:
Completing a round trip in Lionel's had become more than just an amusing escapade—it had become a feat of teamwork, perseverance, and triumphing over our past fears. Elaine's leadership, coupled with our combined determination, proved the undoing of my previous miserable experience in the cave.
As we emerged from the depths of Lionel's, grinning from ear to ear, we couldn't help but celebrate our newfound conquering spirits. And so, looking back at the harrowing yet exhilarating journey, Lionel's transformed itself from a dreaded place of disarray to a place where friendships were forged, fears were vanquished, and laughter resounded in the face of danger.
Crawl into the streamway in Lionel's. Photo by Peter Glanvill, used with his kind permission.
Merryn Matthews recently faced a case of writer's block (aka a bad dose of can't-be-arsed) when contemplating setting fingers to keyboard with the story of a recent trip to Lionel's hole in Burrington, but managed nobly to overcome this ...
Oh wow, we found the way...
On the Sunday of bonfire weekend a group of us decided to have an explore in Lionel's. My previous two trips there led me to believe that I hated Lionel's, viewing it as an unnavigable crawly maze you must subject yourself to when extremely hungover. I remember spending a trip there staring repeatedly at my watch, complaining, and wondering how long we had to poke around boulders for before it was acceptable to say, 'we've been caving'.
This time however, led by Elaine and Jacob Podesta, Dan Hill and I had a zoomy roundtrip, passing through the very unnoticeable 'ducks' and even taking an extra detour to visit Suicide Chamber. I actually enjoyed wibbling around the boulder maze and trying to guess how it all linked up. I still don't think I have any idea of the route, other than that it often looked like the most unlikely way on. However, I no longer hate Lionel's - a transformative experience. The other four, unguided by Elaine, may now hate Lionel's having got confused exploring round the entrance chamber.
(Jacob claimed he had completed the round trip before but been gaslighted by the un-duck like ducks, and Si, into thinking he had not completed the whole thing)
I initially couldn't be bothered to write a report so tried asking Chat GPT, which turned it into quite an entertaining epic. Who knew it was such a big cave. I now intend to use chat GPT for all future newsletter content.
Merryn Matthews
And now we present the version as written by Merryn's artificial friend and caving companion ...
Conquering the Cave: A Thrilling Expedition through Lionel's
And this is what happens when you ask Bing images to help out!
Introduction:
After a disastrous first attempt at exploring the treacherous depths of Lionel's Cave, plagued by a hangover and a lost sense of direction, I had given up all hope on ever enjoying this subterranean wonder. However, fate had other plans for me, for it wasn't long before Elaine, the adventurous soul that she is, decided to lead a group of friends for another attempt at Lionel's. Little did we know that this journey would turn into a heart-pounding, laughter-inducing adventure like no other.
Day 1: Descending Into the Abyss
With a mix of excitement and trepidation, we gathered at the entrance of Lionels Cave. Armed with headlamps, provisions, and Elaine's unwavering confidence, we took our first steps into the unknown. The stalactites and stalagmites stretched out like jagged teeth, ready to claim unwary explorers, but this time, we were prepared.
Elaine, our fearless leader, navigated the labyrinthine caverns flawlessly, effortlessly maneuvering through narrow passages and evading treacherous chasms. Her knowledge of Lionel's, acquired through numerous past expeditions, made her the perfect guide. As we followed her lead, anticipation gripped our hearts, making us feel like true explorers, seekers of forgotten treasures.
Day 2: Defying Gravity and Discovering Hidden Charms
On the second day, we stumbled upon a vertical tunnel that continued into the dark abyss above. Emboldened by Elaine's audacity, we decided to venture up into the unknown depths, defying gravity in the process. With each precarious step, our adrenaline surged, mingled with laughter at the sheer absurdity of our pursuit. At that moment, we realized that Lionel's was as much about conquering our fears as it was about unveiling its secrets.
Midway through our ascent, we were greeted by an enchanting glow that emanated from within a hidden chamber. We discovered a breathtaking spectacle: bioluminescent algae covered the walls, creating the illusion of floating stars in an underground sky. Our awe and wonder were tangible as we danced amidst this natural light show, cameras capturing every magical moment.
Day 3: The Great Escape
As we approached the end of our expedition, we found ourselves deep within a network of twisting tunnels. Uneasiness settled upon our group as we realized we were lost once again. Panic threatened to consume us, but then Elaine unleashed her secret weapon - a bag of glowsticks.
With a newfound sense of purpose, we cracked each glowstick, releasing their vibrant hues into the air. Our efforts transformed the dark, gloomy tunnels into a jubilant and kaleidoscopic wonderland. The illuminated path guided us towards the exit, leading us through twists, turns, and narrow squeezes, until finally, fresh air greeted our faces like a long-lost friend.
Conclusion:
Completing a round trip in Lionel's had become more than just an amusing escapade—it had become a feat of teamwork, perseverance, and triumphing over our past fears. Elaine's leadership, coupled with our combined determination, proved the undoing of my previous miserable experience in the cave.
As we emerged from the depths of Lionel's, grinning from ear to ear, we couldn't help but celebrate our newfound conquering spirits. And so, looking back at the harrowing yet exhilarating journey, Lionel's transformed itself from a dreaded place of disarray to a place where friendships were forged, fears were vanquished, and laughter resounded in the face of danger.
Merryn's Artificial Friend
FIRST FOOTSTEPS
Zac in the entrance to Langweiligehöle.
In Zac Woodford's final instalment of the Austria Expo reports, he describes how he boldly went where no one had ever gone before.
I would be remiss in my trip reporting if I didn’t mention Langweiligehöle. For context, all the cave names have to be in German as they are submitted to the Austria government at the end of the expo. So if you find a cave, you can give it an English name but that name has to translate well. Homecoming is a good example of this as it was initially named in English then translated to German, however, the German translation was more akin to ‘coming home’ which is the name of a pro-Nazi film. It was with this in mind that I went the other way when coming up with a name for the cave I found. I wracked my brain for the few GCSE German words I could still remember and settled on Langweilige. I will not tell you what it means, you can go look it up for yourself! My reasoning was that if the cave went nowhere the name would be appropriate, and if it did go somewhere it’d be ironic.
I discovered the cave during the second week while out prospecting with Martin Green. I’d run off into the bunda and found a few caves, the most promising of which I’d decided to come back to later as it had a strong cool breeze. So I did. A week later I dragged Ash and Will along. As we were getting ready, I pointed my light down and saw, from that angle, it didn’t go anywhere. We still decided to investigate it. Ash taught me how to plan the rigging and then how to set up a bolt. I descended into the cave and rigged a second bolt underneath the overhang. The cave sloped down steeply with a snow slope on one side. Dropping onto this, it began to give way in places. I also wasn’t wearing my full caving kit and so got quite cold quite quickly. I reached the bottom in seconds, as the cave was only ~10m deep. We then surveyed it, every nook and cranny. There was still a bit of a breeze at the bottom but it disappeared into a pile of rubble.
Despite the disappointment, I can now confidently say I have been to a part of this planet that no other person in all human history has been too, because why would they? I also got to name my first ‘cave’, which is very nice to have in the log book. I wouldn’t recommend visiting this one as it’s a bit shit. Trust me, I’m the only person who knows!
Zac in the entrance to Langweiligehöle.
In Zac Woodford's final instalment of the Austria Expo reports, he describes how he boldly went where no one had ever gone before.
I would be remiss in my trip reporting if I didn’t mention Langweiligehöle. For context, all the cave names have to be in German as they are submitted to the Austria government at the end of the expo. So if you find a cave, you can give it an English name but that name has to translate well. Homecoming is a good example of this as it was initially named in English then translated to German, however, the German translation was more akin to ‘coming home’ which is the name of a pro-Nazi film. It was with this in mind that I went the other way when coming up with a name for the cave I found. I wracked my brain for the few GCSE German words I could still remember and settled on Langweilige. I will not tell you what it means, you can go look it up for yourself! My reasoning was that if the cave went nowhere the name would be appropriate, and if it did go somewhere it’d be ironic.
I discovered the cave during the second week while out prospecting with Martin Green. I’d run off into the bunda and found a few caves, the most promising of which I’d decided to come back to later as it had a strong cool breeze. So I did. A week later I dragged Ash and Will along. As we were getting ready, I pointed my light down and saw, from that angle, it didn’t go anywhere. We still decided to investigate it. Ash taught me how to plan the rigging and then how to set up a bolt. I descended into the cave and rigged a second bolt underneath the overhang. The cave sloped down steeply with a snow slope on one side. Dropping onto this, it began to give way in places. I also wasn’t wearing my full caving kit and so got quite cold quite quickly. I reached the bottom in seconds, as the cave was only ~10m deep. We then surveyed it, every nook and cranny. There was still a bit of a breeze at the bottom but it disappeared into a pile of rubble.
Despite the disappointment, I can now confidently say I have been to a part of this planet that no other person in all human history has been too, because why would they? I also got to name my first ‘cave’, which is very nice to have in the log book. I wouldn’t recommend visiting this one as it’s a bit shit. Trust me, I’m the only person who knows!
Zac Woodford
THE CAVE OF THE CATS
The entrance to the otherworld, Owenagat, photo by Linda Wilson.
When Linda Wilson took a last minute decision to throw her caving kit in the car on the way to the Speleological Union of Ireland Symposium, she wasn't really expecting to use it. She certainly wasn't expecting to get absolutely filthy passing through the legendary gateway to hell!
The Rathcrogan complex of archaeological sites near Tulsk in Co Roscommon is one of the six Royal Sites of Ireland. Rathcrogan is identified as the site of Cruachan, the traditional capital of the Connachta, the prehistoric and early historic rulers of the island’s western territory. There are many references to the area in early Irish manuscripts and its monuments range from the Neolithic (4000–2500 BC), through the Bronze Age (2500–500 BC) and Iron Age (500 BC–400 AD), to the early medieval period and beyond; they include burial mounds, ringforts and medieval field boundaries as well as the mysterious cave of Owenagat.
In the medieval period, the cave was known as the gateway to hell and was believed to lead to the otherworld, as well as being the bode of the Morrigan, a pre-Christian battle goddess, who often appears as a crow. There are numerous myths and legends associated with the area and the cave, including one where the hero Cú Chulainn has to vanquish several fierce cats in the cave. Although history doesn’t relate exactly how he went about this, the discovery of the poorly preserved remains of a cardboard box in the cave has provided some insight into how he accomplished this heroic feat.
I’ve wanted to visit the site for years as the entrance contains a reused stone, now forming the inner lintel, with a rare inscription in ogham, an Early Medieval alphabet used primarily to write the early Irish language. This reads VRAICCI... MAQI MEDVVI. The full phrasing is unclear but the words FRAECH and SON OF MEDB have been translated. The cave is the supposed birthplace of the legendary Queen Medb and has strong associations with the ancient festival of Samhain.
Main ogham inscription. Photo by Linda Wilson.
A second lintel with a very worn inscription can be found just inside the souterrain and might have led to a second entrance possibly lost when the road was built in the 1930s.
Second ogham stone. Photo by Linda Wilson.
I was lucky enough to tag onto a trip with a bunch of Belfast Uni cavers on the day Graham and I were driving back to Dublin to catch the evening ferry. Although the cave entrance is open, there is no official access except through the Rathcrogan Visitor Centre who have an arrangement with the landowner. Our guide was the incredibly knowledgeable Mike McCarthy, one of the authors of the excellent guidebook to the area. We slung our caving kit in the back of Mike’s minibus and headed over to the cave, a short drive away. We’d been warned that the cave was muddy and I’d seen a couple of earlier visitors back in the centre, so full caving kit was definitely in order, which meant that Graham was left behind at the entrance to the hellmouth as we slithered in after being entertained by Mike’s whistlestop tour of Irish mythology and the local archaeology. He has a natural storyteller’s style and I could have listened to him for hours.
Steps leading down from the souterrain into the natural cave. Note the two horiontal slabs placed to roof this section of passage. Photo by Linda Wilson.
A low, muddy entrance leads through a souterrain for the first 10m and then descends a set of rough stone steps into a high, narrow rift passage that drops into more mud before rising again after 37m to low, hands and knees craw that ends in a clay blockage.
Rift passage, Owenagat, photo by Linda Wilson.
We all slithered and happily wandered around in the mud chatting with Mike while I took as many photos as possible. Mike also showed us some historic graffiti left in the narrow section of passage with the steps. The most obvious names are D Hyde, J O’Flanagan and PM Calvin.
D. Hyde 1911. Photo by Linda Wilson.
Douglas Hyde was an Irish academic, linguist, scholar of the Irish language, politician and diplomat who served as the first President of Ireland from June 1938 to June 1945. Hyde was born in Castlerea in Co Roscommon and is buried nearby at Frenchpark. In an email after the trip, Mike told me that he “took a gentleman now residing in the USA into the cave last year whose surname was Kelly and who was related to the family who originally owned the farm in which Rathcroghan Mound stands today and he informed me that it was his father who took Douglas Hyde into the cave originally when he carved his name!”
J. O'Flanagan 13.9.1911. Photo by Linda Wilson.
J. O'FLan, PM Calvin. Photo by Linda Wilson.
J O’Flanagan is believed to have been a local landowner. Nothing is yet known about PM Calvin but I would like to do further research on these inscriptions when time allows.
We all emerged utterly filthy and were promptly ushered into the minibus in all our muddy gear so we could get changed back at the visitor centre. Our protestations met with an airy wavy of the hand from a man who clearly has a close and healthy relationship with mud and an utter disregard for the interior of his van. We did manage to brush of his suggestion of getting changed in the (spotless) loos inside the centre, although Eszter made use of the outside tap and Aoibhinn very sensibly rolled around in the shallow river for a while!
Many thanks to Mike McCarthy for accompanying us and to Eszter Kaloczkai, Aoibhinn Nic Aodh, Ethan Hanley, Chelsia Choi and Peter Ward for letting me join them.
The entrance to the otherworld, Owenagat, photo by Linda Wilson.
When Linda Wilson took a last minute decision to throw her caving kit in the car on the way to the Speleological Union of Ireland Symposium, she wasn't really expecting to use it. She certainly wasn't expecting to get absolutely filthy passing through the legendary gateway to hell!
The Rathcrogan complex of archaeological sites near Tulsk in Co Roscommon is one of the six Royal Sites of Ireland. Rathcrogan is identified as the site of Cruachan, the traditional capital of the Connachta, the prehistoric and early historic rulers of the island’s western territory. There are many references to the area in early Irish manuscripts and its monuments range from the Neolithic (4000–2500 BC), through the Bronze Age (2500–500 BC) and Iron Age (500 BC–400 AD), to the early medieval period and beyond; they include burial mounds, ringforts and medieval field boundaries as well as the mysterious cave of Owenagat.
In the medieval period, the cave was known as the gateway to hell and was believed to lead to the otherworld, as well as being the bode of the Morrigan, a pre-Christian battle goddess, who often appears as a crow. There are numerous myths and legends associated with the area and the cave, including one where the hero Cú Chulainn has to vanquish several fierce cats in the cave. Although history doesn’t relate exactly how he went about this, the discovery of the poorly preserved remains of a cardboard box in the cave has provided some insight into how he accomplished this heroic feat.
I’ve wanted to visit the site for years as the entrance contains a reused stone, now forming the inner lintel, with a rare inscription in ogham, an Early Medieval alphabet used primarily to write the early Irish language. This reads VRAICCI... MAQI MEDVVI. The full phrasing is unclear but the words FRAECH and SON OF MEDB have been translated. The cave is the supposed birthplace of the legendary Queen Medb and has strong associations with the ancient festival of Samhain.
Main ogham inscription. Photo by Linda Wilson.
A second lintel with a very worn inscription can be found just inside the souterrain and might have led to a second entrance possibly lost when the road was built in the 1930s.
Second ogham stone. Photo by Linda Wilson.
I was lucky enough to tag onto a trip with a bunch of Belfast Uni cavers on the day Graham and I were driving back to Dublin to catch the evening ferry. Although the cave entrance is open, there is no official access except through the Rathcrogan Visitor Centre who have an arrangement with the landowner. Our guide was the incredibly knowledgeable Mike McCarthy, one of the authors of the excellent guidebook to the area. We slung our caving kit in the back of Mike’s minibus and headed over to the cave, a short drive away. We’d been warned that the cave was muddy and I’d seen a couple of earlier visitors back in the centre, so full caving kit was definitely in order, which meant that Graham was left behind at the entrance to the hellmouth as we slithered in after being entertained by Mike’s whistlestop tour of Irish mythology and the local archaeology. He has a natural storyteller’s style and I could have listened to him for hours.
Steps leading down from the souterrain into the natural cave. Note the two horiontal slabs placed to roof this section of passage. Photo by Linda Wilson.
A low, muddy entrance leads through a souterrain for the first 10m and then descends a set of rough stone steps into a high, narrow rift passage that drops into more mud before rising again after 37m to low, hands and knees craw that ends in a clay blockage.
Rift passage, Owenagat, photo by Linda Wilson.
We all slithered and happily wandered around in the mud chatting with Mike while I took as many photos as possible. Mike also showed us some historic graffiti left in the narrow section of passage with the steps. The most obvious names are D Hyde, J O’Flanagan and PM Calvin.
D. Hyde 1911. Photo by Linda Wilson.
Douglas Hyde was an Irish academic, linguist, scholar of the Irish language, politician and diplomat who served as the first President of Ireland from June 1938 to June 1945. Hyde was born in Castlerea in Co Roscommon and is buried nearby at Frenchpark. In an email after the trip, Mike told me that he “took a gentleman now residing in the USA into the cave last year whose surname was Kelly and who was related to the family who originally owned the farm in which Rathcroghan Mound stands today and he informed me that it was his father who took Douglas Hyde into the cave originally when he carved his name!”
J. O'Flanagan 13.9.1911. Photo by Linda Wilson.
J. O'FLan, PM Calvin. Photo by Linda Wilson.
J O’Flanagan is believed to have been a local landowner. Nothing is yet known about PM Calvin but I would like to do further research on these inscriptions when time allows.
We all emerged utterly filthy and were promptly ushered into the minibus in all our muddy gear so we could get changed back at the visitor centre. Our protestations met with an airy wavy of the hand from a man who clearly has a close and healthy relationship with mud and an utter disregard for the interior of his van. We did manage to brush of his suggestion of getting changed in the (spotless) loos inside the centre, although Eszter made use of the outside tap and Aoibhinn very sensibly rolled around in the shallow river for a while!
Many thanks to Mike McCarthy for accompanying us and to Eszter Kaloczkai, Aoibhinn Nic Aodh, Ethan Hanley, Chelsia Choi and Peter Ward for letting me join them.
Linda Wilson
PHOTO FEATURE - MARBLE ARCH AND COOLARKEN, IRELAND
Mike Simms in Marble Arch. Photo copyright Chris Howes. Editoors' note: it's tempting to point out that the sun doesn't always shine out of Mike's arse underground!
During the recent Speleological Union of Ireland's symposium weekend, Mike Simms, Chris Howes and Judith Calford found time to go underground, and naturally, Chris took some photos.
Mike Simms in Marble Arch. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Mike's verbal trip report described Marble Arch, or at least the part they saw, as 'a bit scrofulous.' Others (Linda and Graham) pointed out that might have been due to following Duncan Foster around the boulders as Duncan's route-finding can often be somewhat erratic.
Mike Simms and Judith Calford in Coolarken. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Coolarken, by contrast, was bigger and a lot less scrofulous. It ends in a stonking great big boulder choke, that if the cave was anywhere near Mendip, would no doubt have been burrowed through by now.
Mike Simms in Coolarken. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Judith Calford in Coolarken. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Mike Simms in Marble Arch. Photo copyright Chris Howes. Editoors' note: it's tempting to point out that the sun doesn't always shine out of Mike's arse underground!
During the recent Speleological Union of Ireland's symposium weekend, Mike Simms, Chris Howes and Judith Calford found time to go underground, and naturally, Chris took some photos.
Mike Simms in Marble Arch. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Mike's verbal trip report described Marble Arch, or at least the part they saw, as 'a bit scrofulous.' Others (Linda and Graham) pointed out that might have been due to following Duncan Foster around the boulders as Duncan's route-finding can often be somewhat erratic.
Mike Simms and Judith Calford in Coolarken. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Coolarken, by contrast, was bigger and a lot less scrofulous. It ends in a stonking great big boulder choke, that if the cave was anywhere near Mendip, would no doubt have been burrowed through by now.
Mike Simms in Coolarken. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
Judith Calford in Coolarken. Photo copyright Chris Howes.
MANY MUSINGS
East Passage, Pen Park Hole. Photo copyright Steve Sharp and used with his kind permission.
Fiona Whitaker’s Pen Park Hole trip report in the last Newsletter has spurred a bit of debate, so here is UBSS thinking/talking about cave science.
Mike Simms commented: “I did read to the end, and always do. Some spiffing stuff this month, especially about PPH. Hypogenic? Hmmm... I'm not convinced - yet. Fluid inclusion analysis of the calcite crystals will indicate temperature of deposition, but those in the Cromhall Triassic cave suggested it was not geothermal and I suspect that a lot of this calcite crystal crust is due to ponding and development of a static phreas as the adjacent valleys filled with sediment through the late Triassic (post Carnian Pluvial Episode). My U-Pb person might be able to get a date from the calcite, although she struggled with the Cromhall crystals and was unable to get a date from large crystals lining some Triassic caves at Tidenham. Pb is no good for U-Pb dating because it contains... too much lead.”
With Mike’s agreement, this was circulated to other interested parties.
Andy Farrant was the first to respond, saying: “My take on PPH is that the overall morphology of the cave is very different to the Cromhall caves, which are more typical of epigenic caves (and are infilled with Triassic sediment). PPH is a very large isolated chamber, unlike any epigenic caves in the region. That, plus the fact we have some galena in with the calcite, and clear evidence of secondary dissolution, possibly condensation corrosion, plus the location on a major fault suggests a hypogenic origin. But a U-Pb date or fluid inclusion work would clinch it…”
Graham chimed in: “As for PPH, it’s not just the mineralogy that make it likely hypogenic, it’s the blind passages (several) in a tree-like pattern, the deep rounded solution pockets (click on the image below for a piece of video of a deep pocket just off the first chamber) and patches of highly corroded patches (harder to find, but they do exist) , all diagnostic features according to Ford & Williams (AKA the Bible …).
East Passage, Pen Park Hole. Photo copyright Steve Sharp and used with his kind permission.
Fiona Whitaker’s Pen Park Hole trip report in the last Newsletter has spurred a bit of debate, so here is UBSS thinking/talking about cave science.
Mike Simms commented: “I did read to the end, and always do. Some spiffing stuff this month, especially about PPH. Hypogenic? Hmmm... I'm not convinced - yet. Fluid inclusion analysis of the calcite crystals will indicate temperature of deposition, but those in the Cromhall Triassic cave suggested it was not geothermal and I suspect that a lot of this calcite crystal crust is due to ponding and development of a static phreas as the adjacent valleys filled with sediment through the late Triassic (post Carnian Pluvial Episode). My U-Pb person might be able to get a date from the calcite, although she struggled with the Cromhall crystals and was unable to get a date from large crystals lining some Triassic caves at Tidenham. Pb is no good for U-Pb dating because it contains... too much lead.”
With Mike’s agreement, this was circulated to other interested parties.
Andy Farrant was the first to respond, saying: “My take on PPH is that the overall morphology of the cave is very different to the Cromhall caves, which are more typical of epigenic caves (and are infilled with Triassic sediment). PPH is a very large isolated chamber, unlike any epigenic caves in the region. That, plus the fact we have some galena in with the calcite, and clear evidence of secondary dissolution, possibly condensation corrosion, plus the location on a major fault suggests a hypogenic origin. But a U-Pb date or fluid inclusion work would clinch it…”
Graham chimed in: “As for PPH, it’s not just the mineralogy that make it likely hypogenic, it’s the blind passages (several) in a tree-like pattern, the deep rounded solution pockets (click on the image below for a piece of video of a deep pocket just off the first chamber) and patches of highly corroded patches (harder to find, but they do exist) , all diagnostic features according to Ford & Williams (AKA the Bible …).
Click on the photo to view the video. Video taken by Linda Wilson with the assistance of Jan Walker.
Graham
continued: “What I won’t do is die in a ditch over the date. One of
Bristow’s important points about that is that the cave pre-dated certain
earth movements. He based this in large part on a calcite band with
an apparent fault running across it. However, on one of the
earliest trips in there after we re-opened it in 1993, Willie Stanton
and I traced that and demonstrated that it actually wasn’t a fault, more
an optical illusion.”
David Richards added: “I have a vague recollection of scanning material from PPH for U and Pb conc. in a batch of samples from the Bristol calcite collection in 1996. Chris Smith might also have had a shot in 2014 at BGS. I'll try to find the data and share.”
Broken calcite crust, near the head of the pitch. Photo by Linda Wilson.
Back to Fiona, where this conversation started. and with regard to Mike’s comment that he suspects that a lot of the calcite crystal crust is due to ponding and development of a static phreas as the adjacent valleys filled with sediment through the late Triassic: “From a water chemistry perspective we have to think what could cause ponded waters to become supersaturated to drive precipitation - they should equilibrate with host rock and sit and chemically sulk. The volume of calcite crystal observed requires a source of Ca (dissolution locally? at depth?), a flux to supply sufficient pore volumes (a lot given the amount observed) and a drive to shift waters from calcite equilibrium to supersaturation (change in temp/pressure/dissolved gas composition/mixing). We also know that (at least elsewhere) there is no clear zonation - these type of crystals appear to be formed from a single water composition. Our work will resolve whether this is also the case at PPH. All of these requirements favour an active circulation and hydrothermal … A date would be super useful I agree, though not sure it would be bomb proof evidence of hypogene dissolution. And Pb concentrations I think were problematic - can’t recall where I read this. Suggests someone has already tried?”
Cathy Hollis from Manchester Uni added: “I agree that U-Pb is a long shot but we are hoping we can give it another try on our Derbyshire samples, pending some trace element analysis which is in progress. We are also going to run clumped isotope analysis for temperatures on the Derbyshire samples and could through in PPH…. May be more successful than fluid inclusions.”
Back to Graham: “Many years ago, Charlie Self gave a sample to (I think) Simon Bottrill to do the fluid inclusion thing. Nothing ever came back to him or me, it might be worth somebody chasing him up. You never know.
“As far as dating is concerned, I’m pretty sure that U-Pb would fail on too much lead. I remember Charlie (again) clutching some nice galena samples that he’d picked up somewhere just beyond the 1st chamber. Funnily enough the other place locally that we came across galena was in a fracture immediately beneath the GB blockhouse.”
So, that’s where the debate rests for the moment. We now need to get some more science done!
Thanks to Mike, Graham, Andy, Fiona, David and Cathy for contributing to the debate.
David Richards added: “I have a vague recollection of scanning material from PPH for U and Pb conc. in a batch of samples from the Bristol calcite collection in 1996. Chris Smith might also have had a shot in 2014 at BGS. I'll try to find the data and share.”
Broken calcite crust, near the head of the pitch. Photo by Linda Wilson.
Back to Fiona, where this conversation started. and with regard to Mike’s comment that he suspects that a lot of the calcite crystal crust is due to ponding and development of a static phreas as the adjacent valleys filled with sediment through the late Triassic: “From a water chemistry perspective we have to think what could cause ponded waters to become supersaturated to drive precipitation - they should equilibrate with host rock and sit and chemically sulk. The volume of calcite crystal observed requires a source of Ca (dissolution locally? at depth?), a flux to supply sufficient pore volumes (a lot given the amount observed) and a drive to shift waters from calcite equilibrium to supersaturation (change in temp/pressure/dissolved gas composition/mixing). We also know that (at least elsewhere) there is no clear zonation - these type of crystals appear to be formed from a single water composition. Our work will resolve whether this is also the case at PPH. All of these requirements favour an active circulation and hydrothermal … A date would be super useful I agree, though not sure it would be bomb proof evidence of hypogene dissolution. And Pb concentrations I think were problematic - can’t recall where I read this. Suggests someone has already tried?”
Cathy Hollis from Manchester Uni added: “I agree that U-Pb is a long shot but we are hoping we can give it another try on our Derbyshire samples, pending some trace element analysis which is in progress. We are also going to run clumped isotope analysis for temperatures on the Derbyshire samples and could through in PPH…. May be more successful than fluid inclusions.”
Back to Graham: “Many years ago, Charlie Self gave a sample to (I think) Simon Bottrill to do the fluid inclusion thing. Nothing ever came back to him or me, it might be worth somebody chasing him up. You never know.
“As far as dating is concerned, I’m pretty sure that U-Pb would fail on too much lead. I remember Charlie (again) clutching some nice galena samples that he’d picked up somewhere just beyond the 1st chamber. Funnily enough the other place locally that we came across galena was in a fracture immediately beneath the GB blockhouse.”
So, that’s where the debate rests for the moment. We now need to get some more science done!
Thanks to Mike, Graham, Andy, Fiona, David and Cathy for contributing to the debate.
BADGER READ TO THE END, DID YOU?
Sorry, Megan, Bing AI couldn't manage a badger in aviator shades! This was the best Bing images could manage. It couldn't spell Harry, either!
Thank you to everyone who clicked on our link last month! Please keep the replies coming. It's great to get some feedback, and as ever, there'll be a prize for the first student to email us after getting to the end! Prizes can be collected in the pub or at the Xmas dinner, if you're going. If not, we'll work something out.
- Ta Da!!! [Graham Mullan] [Note: Nope, still not a student, but keep trying.]
- Hello, Batti! You are rather spiffing, as was the newsletter! Great trip stories, and I’m really happy to see so many new cavers this year! Some fascinating places, and Pen Park Hole will always have a special place in my heart. It was, after all, my first cave – in trainers, leggings, a wind-cheater jacket and a borrowed helmet! [Jan Walker]
- Hello, Bat! And hello, freshers - sounds like the trips were fun. Excellent reports and pix. I admit to being discombobulated and clearly watched too much of the rugby World Cup, as I wondered why Ireland coach Andy Farrell was going caving (sorry, Andy Farrant!) And WHY did the caving model have the camera attached to his todger? Enquiring minds and all that … [Sharon Wheeler and the blessed FT Bear] (we can fawn if you need us to!)
- Ah, Goatchurch. The only cave in which I’ve personally had an accident in almost half a century; beware the well-polished rocks. I found myself chewing a stalagmite, spitting out bits of tooth while the kids in the group I was leading fell about with laughter. [Dick Willis]
- Hello Bat, nice to meet you! [Hans Friederich]
- I did read to the end, and always do. Some spiffing stuff this month, especially about PPH. Hypogenic? Hmmm...I'm not convinced - yet. Fluid inclusion analysis of the calcite crystals will indicate temperature of deposition, but those in the Cromhall Triassic cave suggested it was not geothermal and I suspect that a lot of this calcite crystal crust is due to ponding and development of a static phreas as the adjacent valleys filled with sediment through the late Triassic (post Carnian Pluvial Episode). My U-Pb person might be able to get a date from the calcite, although she struggled with the Cromhall crystals and was unable to get a date from large crystals lining some Triassic caves at Tidenham. Pb is no good for U-Pb dating because it contains...too much lead. [Mike Simms]
- Miss the caving family so much! Sending lots of dark, cold wet affection from Denmark. [Guy Maalouf]
Of course I read to the end, Badger, you can count on me!
THE END
Sorry, Megan, Bing AI couldn't manage a badger in aviator shades! This was the best Bing images could manage. It couldn't spell Harry, either!
Thank you to everyone who clicked on our link last month! Please keep the replies coming. It's great to get some feedback, and as ever, there'll be a prize for the first student to email us after getting to the end! Prizes can be collected in the pub or at the Xmas dinner, if you're going. If not, we'll work something out.
- Ta Da!!! [Graham Mullan] [Note: Nope, still not a student, but keep trying.]
- Hello, Batti! You are rather spiffing, as was the newsletter! Great trip stories, and I’m really happy to see so many new cavers this year! Some fascinating places, and Pen Park Hole will always have a special place in my heart. It was, after all, my first cave – in trainers, leggings, a wind-cheater jacket and a borrowed helmet! [Jan Walker]
- Hello, Bat! And hello, freshers - sounds like the trips were fun. Excellent reports and pix. I admit to being discombobulated and clearly watched too much of the rugby World Cup, as I wondered why Ireland coach Andy Farrell was going caving (sorry, Andy Farrant!) And WHY did the caving model have the camera attached to his todger? Enquiring minds and all that … [Sharon Wheeler and the blessed FT Bear] (we can fawn if you need us to!)
- Ah, Goatchurch. The only cave in which I’ve personally had an accident in almost half a century; beware the well-polished rocks. I found myself chewing a stalagmite, spitting out bits of tooth while the kids in the group I was leading fell about with laughter. [Dick Willis]
- Hello Bat, nice to meet you! [Hans Friederich]
- I did read to the end, and always do. Some spiffing stuff this month, especially about PPH. Hypogenic? Hmmm...I'm not convinced - yet. Fluid inclusion analysis of the calcite crystals will indicate temperature of deposition, but those in the Cromhall Triassic cave suggested it was not geothermal and I suspect that a lot of this calcite crystal crust is due to ponding and development of a static phreas as the adjacent valleys filled with sediment through the late Triassic (post Carnian Pluvial Episode). My U-Pb person might be able to get a date from the calcite, although she struggled with the Cromhall crystals and was unable to get a date from large crystals lining some Triassic caves at Tidenham. Pb is no good for U-Pb dating because it contains...too much lead. [Mike Simms]
- Miss the caving family so much! Sending lots of dark, cold wet affection from Denmark. [Guy Maalouf]
Of course I read to the end, Badger, you can count on me!
THE END